HBTT: Fear of suffering and the culture of death

June 12, 2008 | Struggles | 26 comments

HBTT stands for Half-Baked Thought Thursday.


I read the following line seven months ago on one of my favorite blogs, Reflections of a Paralytic, and I’ve been thinking about it ever since:

A culture that respects human life must have a joyful acceptance of human suffering.

Chelsea went on to say that she hopes to help communicate this message to others by accepting her own crosses, which undoubtedly includes the fact that she became paralyzed in a car accident in high school.

It reminded me of a fascinating quote that Runningmom posted a while back, excerpted from the book Does Suffering Make Sense?:

We tend to regard suffering, not evil, as the worst thing there is and to be more anxious to avoid the former than the latter.

And, finally, I can never ponder the topic of suffering without thinking of the stunning writing of Drusilla. Her posts in her series called Those Damnably Inconvenient Corpses are some of the best blog posts I’ve ever read. Both of her parents were killed when she was young, she ended up with an abusive foster father, and she witnessed her grandfather’s murder. She knows a thing or two about suffering. In the final installment of the three-part series (here’s Part I and Part II), she writes:

If we have enough courage to examine suffering closely, we will find “hatred for God and his kingdom.” We will find Satan — not as a curiosity, nor as a convenient name for evil, nor as a metaphor for the process of maturation in which we separate from our parents and become autonomous, but as an actual being. […]

[God] has neutralized the enemy’s best weapon: fear of death. And by becoming man, “by taking [our] manhood into God, ” he has made it possible for us to participate in his victory if we will turn away from that insidious voice, if we reject Satan’s ‘freedom’ and instead be set free to be fully human, to grow into God’s image and likeness, to love him so much that even the wiles of the devil can only make us more like him.

Ever since I first came across these thoughts, over and over again I see that respect for human life and hatred of any kind of suffering are inversely proportional: as one increases, the other decreases. But I don’t know how to articulate the situation any further than that.

Here are some of the thoughts that run through my head as I ponder all this while folding laundry that I turn over to you guys to help me answer:

  1. Why is it that fear of suffering leads to decreased respect for human life?
  2. How does the fact that people increasingly deny the existence of a real, personal, evil force (Satan) factor into all this, if at all?
  3. What about fearing other people’s suffering (or potential suffering) on their behalf — how can we be deeply compassionate and helpful without falling into the dangerous “your life isn’t worth living” territory?
  4. If there is a connection, what can we do? How does rethinking suffering factor into working towards turning around the trend of decreasing respect for the dignity of human life in the world today?
  5. Any other thoughts on this subject?

I realize that volumes could be written about this subject — feel free to just throw out some brief thoughts on one or two points. I’m very interested to hear any thoughts you have. All comments welcome!

26 Comments

  1. Mikaela D'eigh

    The Holy Father writes about this in his recent encyclical on hope: Spe Salvi: “The true measure of humanity is essentially determined in relationship to suffering and to the sufferer. Yet society cannot accept its suffering members and support them in their trials unless individuals are capable of doing so themselves.”

    A world in which suffering is seen as an evil that must be avoided and eradicated at all costs is one in which those who suffer are seen as burdens to society and a burden to themselves and also I think, a stark reminder to us that we are not as invinciable as we would like to think. Such fear of suffering strips us of our ability to value the sufferer. We value this life more than the one to come, and therefore we strive to make this life as pain free as possible.

    I host a weekly rosary group and a number of us have been experiencing physical and emotional trials, some extreme, in the past couple of months. The spiritual purging and growth in these souls that has come from their patient endurance has been incredible to see and experience.

    When suffering is accepted and embraced and united to the Cross, there is an incrediable amount of grace given, not only to the one who endures the suffering, but to those souls that he prays for!

  2. SuburbanCorrespondent

    Hardly half-baked!

    The joyful acceptance of suffering, though I do understand what you are saying, has such creepy undertones, doesn’t it? One pictures masochism, and people wallowing in their ills rather than trying to overcome them. I think our American “pull yourself by your bootstraps, you are what you think you are” mentality sees the joyful acceptance of suffering as defeat.

  3. Sandy

    For me, fear of suffering speaks of a lack of humility. When I fear my own or someone else’s suffering, I’m doubting God’s sovereignty. Did He create me and does He know every cell of my body? Does He allow suffering? I think the reason that our fear of suffering has added to our culture of death is that we have usurped God’s role in life and death. We think we know better than He does. I realize these are somewhat pithy responses and I don’t mean for them to be. I’ve been contemplating these questions for awhile now, myself. The more I trust God and accept His will for my life (suffering and all), the less I fear.

    I often think of the verses in Job where God answers Job’s questioning and says “where were you when I formed the world?” All of Job’s friends were advising him (in the midst of his suffering) to curse God and die. He refused to do so, but he did ask God a lot of questions about suffering!

    All the natural disasters lately have me thinking a lot about how we think we as a culture have “mastered” death and that we can say when and how we will die, but the tornadoes, floods and earthquakes have proved that wrong, haven’t they?

  4. AmyDe

    I’ve always considered suffering to be God’s greatest (and perhaps harshest) teaching tool. Don’t get me wrong – I am not saying that God is punishing people or that those who suffer greater need “more lessons”. I just mean to say it is through the recognition of our own weakness that He is manifested most gloriously.

    Full reliance on God in our deepest hour of need is the harshest test we will ever face and the closest a Christian will EVER get to hell.

    As for compassion for others and value of human life – I don’t know? It seems the worse people’s lives are the more we don’t want to look – maybe it’s a fear that somehow suffering is contagious – maybe sometimes it is?

  5. allyouwhohope

    Suffering is something that I’ve had to come to terms with due to the fact that I am dealing with infertility. I shrugged off suggestions to “embrace” my suffering for years, until just a couple of months ago it really sunk in that if I fight the suffering, it will only become harder to bear. As soon as I saw value in it and that God calls us to join in the suffering of his son, it was actually like a weight was literally lifted from my shoulders.

    I think many people will avoid the pain of suffering at all costs, whether that means assisted suicide at the end of life, getting an abortion to prevent any suffering related to having the child, aborting a baby who tests positive for a disability, or turning to in vitro fertilization when faced with infertility. Despite the consequences of these actions, our instant-gratification society needs to end the pain now, rather than seeing it as an opportunity to draw closer to God. And for those who don’t believe in God, what purpose could suffering possibly have?

  6. Marian

    I love the way you honestly question things and explore them.

    Maybe I’m just not thinking deeply enough right now, but I had some very simple answers pop into my head on a couple of these.

    1. “Why is it that fear of suffering leads to decreased respect for human life?”

    One factor is that the more we fear suffering, the more we worship Comfort and Convenience. Messy human lives can get mightily in the way of these gods, and can be easily sacrificed on the alter of those gods. Worship of comfort and convenience makes it easier to see abortion as the right choice. Worship of comfort and convenience makes it seem OK to be rude to anyone who is in our way. Ad so oin.

    Another simple factor is that the more we fear suffering, the more we want to deny it’s power, and the less we want to be confronted with it (the comfort and convenience of not having to deal with it come into play here, too). It is much easier to be an advocate for “euthanasia” in any form when you really do not want to think about a sick person’s plight (denial out of fear), nor spend time caring for them or paying for it (comfort and convenience).

    And 2… I have many more thoughts on this, but am out of time for now!

  7. JB

    Jen,

    A lot of what I was going to say has already been said more clearly in some form or other by previous commenters. Nevertheless, I shall try to make sense of my own jumbled thoughts.

    1: Why is it that fear of suffering leads to decreased respect for human life?

    We fear suffering because it reminds us that God is God and we are not. Suffering reminds us our own mortality and suffering breeds loneliness. When suffering it is all to easy to slip into a “nobody can understand what I’m going through.”

    Fear of suffering leads to less respect for human life because as a response to this reminder of our mortality and dependency on God, we like to further assert our own autonomy, which results in stomping on the dignity of other persons.

    2: How does the fact that people increasingly deny the existence of a real, personal, evil force (Satan) factor into all this, if at all?

    Satan is another force more powerful than almighty me. IF I deny his existence maybe I can convince myself that I am in control. Maybe I can do something to prevent myself from suffering. I have the power!

    3: What about fearing other people’s suffering (or potential suffering) on their behalf — how can we be deeply compassionate and helpful without falling into the dangerous “your life isn’t worth living” territory?

    I’m not entirely sure how to answer this. I think the selfish part of why we fear the suffering of others is because it also reminds us of something that we cannot control.

    I think looking at the world and thus suffering through “faith, hope, and love” colored glasses makes all the difference. Which I think is some of what Mikaela was getting at by quoting Spe Salvi. To put far too briefly: I have faith that Christ not only suffered out of love for me and for everyone, but the he died. I have faith that Christ defeated death. I have faith in the Resurrection, not just His, but mine too at the end of time.

    This faith gives me a “trustworthy” hope. A hope that enables to me to embrace suffering with the knowledge that on the other side of the Crucifixion is the Resurrection.

    This hope enables to be truly love in such a way that I can forget about myself. Thus I can truly feel for a person in suffering, and honestly pray that God allow me to carry some or all of his/her suffering. While at the same time, I am remain aware that this person’s life, as painful as it may be, can still reflect the Glory of God.

    As Pope Benedict discusses in Spe Salvi, the Saints are people who have fully live within the theological virtues which enables them to die for Christ and others and, in some cases, to even pray to spend time in Hell if that would spare just one person.

    This is our goal.*** Note I am nowhere near achieving what has been described above, but I think this is what we are called to.***

  8. Anonymous

    Isn’t it possible to abhor suffering and still value human life?

    I followed the story of Nixzmary Brown for a while in the papers. If you don’t know it – she was the little girl who was savagely beaten by her stepfather, tied up on a chair in the basement, left to bleed out while she moaned for her mother for hours, until she finally died in that chair. At her funeral, family members could still see the abuse through the make-up. The courts still haven’t convicted the monster who did this to her, incredible as this seems.

    I think about her suffering all the time. I have children her age. I feel physically sick to my stomach every time I read the details of her case. She suffered so, so wrongly. Keep in mind this was ongoing abuse – the very last of which killed her. She suffered her whole little life.

    I value life immensely, especially this lost girl’s. I absolutely hate the suffering that was inflicted on her. So I’m not sure I totally get how people who hate suffering also have disregard for life. I would have thought it was the opposite. You love life, and so you hate to see something awful like this happen.

  9. Anonymous

    O, to suffer! My 63-year-old die-hard agnostic brother just recently came to our house, sat down with pad and paper (because I am deaf) and wrote me that a woman named Mary spoke to him. When he said, “I know of no Mary, what is your last name,” she said, “My name is Mary, Mother of Jesus.” While this woman wasn’t a flesh and blood person, she was nevertheless “there.” When he told me this story, I went and fetched a prayer that Mother Teresa of Calcutta sent to my husband several years ago. She told my husband I was to say, “Mary, Mother of Jesus be a mother to me now, make me better,” for my serious health concerns. Well, I had been saying that prayer for myself and for my brother for years. The prayer coupled with my suffering (since 1990) brought about (in part, if not full) my brother’s conversion, of that I am certain.

    And as St. Pius X has said, “Holy Communion is the shortest and the safest way to Heaven. There are others: Innocence, for instance, but that is for little children. Penance, but we are afraid of it. Generous endurance of the trials of life, but when they come we weep and ask to be spared. The surest, easiest, shortest way is by the Eucharist.”

    So even without suffering, one of course can be saved by the Eucharist alone. But with both things “going” for you, the double whammy’s sure to bring some over-the-top glory. At least, that’s what I’m banking on [insert smiley].

    +++

    … “the Eucharist is the cake batter, the suffering is the oven that makes it all take form.”

    Net

  10. Amber

    In response to the first point, I’m reminded heavily of Canticle for Leibowitz – particularly the third part of the book. Have you read it? It is a great book, I highly recommend it.

  11. RJW

    My Mom died of pacreatic cancer 26 years ago. She suffered greatly and was extrememly sick the last month. Although she died at home, she was in the hospital a few weeks before. A nurse began crying one day in Mom’s room. Mom asked what was wrong? The nurse said it was so unfair that a good person would suffer and die so young (62) when there were so many people who were “not as good” and “did nothing for others” would get well. My Mom told her that maybe they got better because they were not ready to go to God. And her sufering would maybe be an offering to God for those people. I learned alot that day.

  12. Anna

    1. The more you fear suffering, the more you will do whatever you can to prevent or end it. There is a sort of heirarchy of what matters most to us: human life is generally very near the top. But if avoiding suffering becomes more important than human life, then life is devalued, and things like suicide and euthanasia will result.

    2. If you don’t believe in Satan, then you are more likely to blame suffering on God, and despair or lose faith. If suffering is just an impersonal force or, worse, comes from God, then there is no possibility of victory over it, no hope possible. Only if you see that you have a real Enemy who is out to get you, will it be comforting that God, who is on your side, is more powerful than that Enemy. If we first see that our suffering comes as the direct result of someone who hates us, then it is easier to accept it when God asks us to bear that suffering for the greater good, without hating or resenting God for it.

    3. I think a belief in Satan helps us deal with others’ suffering as well as our own. If our goal is to get rid of someone’s suffering, period, then we will sacrifice their life to rid them of their pain. If, instead, our goal is to fight with and for them against Satan’s attacks, then it will be easier not to cross the line of devaluing their life, since that is what we are fighting for.

    4. First we need to stop focusing on our own suffering, as much as we can. Remembering that God offers us victory can give us hope and keep us patient. Complaining about suffering, out loud, in writing, or even just in our thoughts, generally just builds up resentment or despair and keeps us from loving others as fully as we might. And loving others as fully as we can is *the* way to bring good into the world, including the good of respecting life more.

    5. Like most things in life, accepting suffering is a lot easier to talk about than to do.

    God bless.

  13. Tausign

    In the encyclical ‘Gospel of Life’, JPII writes that many ‘see suffering as the epitome of all evil’. Note the nonbeliever denies God and ‘sin’ and thus concludes that suffering itself is the evil. This error can affect the way believers view suffering. Thus when the ‘evil of suffering’ appears it must be destroyed even if it means taking life. This in part explains your ‘inverse relationship’.

    The great ‘teaching tool’ to learn about suffering is to meditate frequently upon Christ Crucified…to gaze upon the Cross.

    Here we learn the reality of the cause of suffering; namely the breakdown of our relationship with God, disharmony with His ways, even Creation is set subject to futility…in short suffering is the manifestation of the reality of sin. Sin is the evil and suffering is its manifestation.

    Here we learn that the innocent do suffer and that there’s not a one to one relationship between our sinfulness and our suffering. Look at how Christ (the immaculate Lamb of God) takes away the sin of the world by His suffering…

    Here we learn why sin is so devastating. Without suffering, sin is invisible and ignored. With suffering, especially when it affects the innocent, we learn how detestible sin really is and we can begin to understand the meaning of our redemption and the sacred mysteries.

  14. Shelly W.

    When we don’t suffer we don’t need God. We don’t run to Him, cling to Him, fall on Him. When life is good or if we haven’t suffered we tend, in our humanness, to rely on ourselves, thus elevating ourselves above God. I think suffering is a blessing–God’s way of calling us to rely on Him more–even though it stinks at the time.

    I’m interested in the thought that those who don’t suffer don’t value human life as much. I don’t know how the two intersect, but somehow I think you’re on to something. I’ll keep reading to see what you come up with! 🙂

  15. kris

    Bishop Sheen speaks on this topic. The jist of his take on it is that in order to reach a higher level we must first die to a lower one. It is true in nature ie the plant life wants to become ncorporated into animal life so it must be nashed between teeth and die and only then can it become part of something higher…same holds true for humans – we must die a million little deaths through our suffering in order to rise up into divine life…Satan has convinced many that there is no divine life and others that they are not worthy or capable of ever entering into divine life so that leaves all suffering simply meaningless. Suffereing is simply suffering and without any meaning or purpose it justifiably then should be avoided at all costs…then as we see no connection between this life and a higher calling we begin to value life only as a fleeting commodity to be used and manipulated based on any given assessed value.

  16. Multiple Mom T

    As a mother of 3 special-needs triplets and and their quadruplet brother in heaven, I am no stranger to suffering, either.

    When we got pregnant with quads, all five of our doctors encouraged selective reduction–i.e. killing two of the babies to give the others a better chance. Ummm NO THANK YOU.

    We gave birth at 25 weeks to a baby that died soon after, a baby that at 6 1/2 is totally blind, somewhat dependent on tube feeding and very high functioning autistic. His brother and sister have their own issues, but are lesser than his.

    The “selective reduction” would have taken the baby that died and our one son who doesn’t have as many issues. I probably would have delivered later in the pregnancy, resulting in possible sight as well as better feeding for our son.

    Do I regret my decision? No, not for an instant. Ethan’s life, though difficult, is filled with much joy. And Bennett, who also gives us much joy, wouldn’t be here.

    I’m sure that there are those who think we chose wrong–that Ethan’s life is less than perfect and therefore not as worthy as a “normal” child. Many children are aborted because they aren’t “perfect” by society’s standards. How arrogant, how god-like, to chose what is worthy and not worthy.

  17. zoom

    I think the reason we fear suffering is that deep down we all fear that some how we or the parties involved did something wrong to bring about the suffering. Simply put, good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people.

    This mind set helps us rationalize. It helps us remain judgmental. It creates unrealistic expectations of life. It creates weird legalism to the point of superstition. It makes us tired and depressed.

    Job’s friends and family thought he had some how caused his demise. The disciples looked at the blind child and said ” did his sins or his father’s sins bring about his blindness?? ”

    If we embrace suffering and use it to God’s glory, there is power and holiness and beauty.

  18. zoom

    P.S. to my other comment. When I said to embrace suffering, I don’t mean to embrace evil. I think I meant the general condition of being a human and having disappointments. Not the evils of violence, child abuse, starvation etc.

  19. Kristen

    I certainly have thought about suffering as of late….

    But I have never thought about the fear of suffering and inability to value the sufferer…Hmm…I will have to think on that some more.

    I have always thought that suffering is something you hoped you could avoid or that somehow you were “unlucky” if it happened to you. Of if you just did everything right your suffering would be minimal…of course, I have come to realize how faulty this thinking has been.

    But I am just beginning to wonder if, once we reach heaven, that we will see that those who have really suffered are really the “lucky” ones because we will see why things have happened from God’s perspective/economy, not our limited human thought.

  20. 'Becca

    Well, speaking of half-baked thoughts, and speaking of suffering, I have a bad bad headache right now which may render me only semi-coherent. I get these headaches a lot. Often I wonder if they are good for something, mean something, or are striking me totally by chance. Do they come from God, trying to purify me or strengthen my pain tolerance for some future ordeal (I must say, natural childbirth was easy because of this), or is my personification of the headache as a little demon on my shoulder that climbs into my head an accurate one? I don’t know.

    Anyway, I feel like when you say “suffering” you’re defining it differently than I do, or you’re drawing the circle of “which things are suffering” differently. Much of your post just seems puzzling to me.

    One thing I’ve always found odd about pro-life rhetoric is the assumption that dying is a really bad thing, worse than suffering. Why?

    About Satan: I believe he exists. I don’t spend much time worrying about him. God is much more powerful, and I trust Him. I’ve seen a lot of people get way too invested in the idea of Satan’s power and completely retard their spiritual growth by believing that they just can’t manage to be better people due to Satan always tripping them up. In part I think they’re attributing to Satan lapses caused by their personal weaknesses, and in part I think they’re inviting him in by worrying so much about him–kind of like the most trembling kid on the playground is the one singled out by the bully. You linked to a blog a while ago that talked about how believing yourself to be under spiritual attack can sort of make you feel special; I think that is a real danger and is one of the most evil things that can come out of suffering–feeling special because Satan noticed you, instead of being motivated to deepen your relationship with God so that you need not fear Satan. Your piece “Anger, Anxiety, and Trusting God” makes an important point about the meaning of anxiety.

  21. Katie

    I touched on this very, very briefly recently on my blog.

    1. Fear of suffering is totally selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed. When avoiding any kind of suffering is our primary concern (whether we realize and acknowledge it or not), of course it’s going to lead to a decrease in respect for human life. It’s a typical pro-choice argument- women must have the right to abort their children because the baby might be an inconvenience, it might be a “burden,” it might be a “punishment” (as Obama puts it)…it might lead to some type of suffering. We don’t question that as Americans because it’s accepted that suffering is BAD, that the individual is most important, and so of course we accept “getting rid of” anything that might cause even a minor disruption. Our selfishness isn’t just evident there, think of arguments against welfare and social help programs, arguments in favor of euthanasia…while people sometimes try to veil it with some nonsense about it being better for that other person, the reality is it’s all about “me.” I don’t want more money taken out in taxes to help people, I don’t want to see elderly people at the end of their lives, etc etc.

    2. I absolutely think it does. We shouldn’t live in fear of Satan, that would be giving him a power he really doesn’t have. As long as we have Christ, we have no reason to fear Satan. But we should certainly recognize him as a very real and insidious being so we can be mindful of his influence. Denying his existence and waving it away as some foolish, uneducated hogwash is like hanging a big sign around our necks that says “COME AND GET ME.” When we’re not mindful of Satan, we’re more open to his influence because it can so easily be misinterpreted, either as our own will, or, more frighteningly, as God’s

    3. I think a lot of times this ties back into number one. Are we feeling compassion for them, or are we just worried about how their suffering will make US feel? “Their life wasn’t worth living, anyway” doesn’t have anything to do with altruism, it’s a line we feed ourselves to justify things we know intrinsically are evil! And who are we to decide when life isn’t worth living, anyway? An atheist friend of mine pointed to conjoined twins (specifically Reba and Lori Schappell) as proof that God couldn’t possibly exist- after all, how could God possibly “punish” people like that? I was quick to refute that- neither woman feels punished, and both are deeply devoted to God. So who are we to determine their lives aren’t worth living? We determine it to be so because we fear it, not them. We decide babies need to be aborted because “their lives wouldn’t be worth living” but how can we ever make that determination? Every life has meaning.

    I think understanding and accepting suffering could radicalize the way we view and value human life in all stages.

    I have more thoughts but I need to wrangle children into bed and do dishes! I hope some of this made sense, I haven’t had a lot of sleep the last few days!

  22. Jennifer

    Hey, Jennifer F! I am Jennifer P :oD–I bumped into your blog while searching for blood clot information online (I am headed for a scan as soon as the incredibly SLOW people call me from the radiology place!)…I have to say that me finding you in this huge “blogosphere” (could I have said anything dorkier–ha ha!) is nothing short of divine. I hate leaving all of this in a comment–I hope you don’t mind! I am a cradle Catholic, living in SC (28 year old stay at home mom–you can pop over to my blog ANY TIME!!) and I have been going through a horrible spiritual crisis for months! It began with a panic attack about God in the middle of a Rosary on Feb. 13th (so scary, I remember the exact date) and I haven’t been the same since. You worked your way into Catholicism and somehow I am shying away from it ad I NEVER saw it coming–I always felt sorry for people who questioned God. In the middle of this Dark Night (read St. John of the Cross and Mother Teresa by now)–I started having medical problems (like this scary vein thing–ACK!) and every prayer that goes up feels immediately lost. I have been searching for answers and not getting any and then I run into a stranger’s blog on this random night and everything feels suddenly better. You sound just like me–I can hardly believe it! I was sitting here at my house, reading your conversion story and just bawling (my husband was looking at me like I’d gone coo coo). WOW! I think I’m going to add your blog to my link list so I can check in more often. I feel like we’d have a lot to talk about. Again–Sorry for the long post–I’m going to go look for more blood clot info to scare me and then I’ll come catch up more on your blog to make myself feel better ;o) Nice to “meet” you!!!! And THANK YOU….You’ll never know how much you helped me without even trying. I have a starting point now. :o)

    Jen

  23. lyrl

    Wow, what insightful comments. It’s been really mind-enriching to read everyone’s takes on these questions.

    I don’t have any such coherent answers, but the ideas discussed here have some similarities to concepts I’ve batted around; I posted about them and linked back here as a related topic, I hope you don’t mind.

  24. Bill Donaghy

    This is such an important topic! Thanks Jen. Here are my thoughts: I think suffering is here as a test of love. Love is the goal and the end of human life. Every one of us has to take this “test” – we have to employ our freedom and decide to love or lust, give or grasp. So our first parents failed this test in the Garden of Eden. I think each of us gets the chance to relive the Garden, each of us has thus Tree planted in the center of our hearts, and we either grasp at it, for pleasure or power or control, or we can obey and trust and wait and crucify our selfishness on the Tree like Jesus, the New Adam did. I think God lets suffering pass through just as He did that ancient Serpent because it can be a tool that can help us trust and a fire that can strip away the greedy desire in us for selfishness. There’s no greed in God, in the Selfless Heart of the Trinity, but there is Love. So suffering can help us to love. I wonder if suffering might have been in the Garden before sin, if it was supposed to be embraced as a sign of Love, but fear thought it was evil? Hmmm, how’s that for half-baked?

  25. Jennifer F.

    I just wanted to drop in to thank you all for these amazing comments. What a fascinating discussion! I’ll undoubtedly do a follow-up post to highlight some of this great content.

  26. Mobile Phones

    Thanks Jennifer. If you do the follow up comment then I am sure your post will receive regularly new and fresh comments. I have analysed that many dofollow comment get unique and regular content for their post.
    Thanks
    Jennifer

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